Craft Brewing: More Than a Consumer Preference
Many people see craft beer as a niche culture—a pursuit of individuality and distinctive taste. Yet before the rise of commercial beer, with its uniform, watery flavours, brewing methods and tastes were inherently diverse. The loss is not one of flavour alone: commercial beer has also weakened the microbial diversity that fermented foods ought to harbour, and, alongside other industrialised foods that chase “standard” and “clean” ideals, is steadily eroding our immune defences against illness.
Craft brewing, then, should never be reduced to a mere consumer preference. In this episode, we are joined by two guests from the worlds of brewing and baking—Zhang Kai (Fenye Brewing) and Elephant (Mars Elephant Lab)—to discuss their understanding of craft brewing and artisanal baking, and the stories that unfold between them and the craft of fermentation.
Zhang Kai and Elephant shared how they bridged brewing and baking, using the same grain to explore the possibilities of two fermentation arts. They spoke of the experimental spirit behind their work, from inoculating corn with sake koji, to the material cycle between bread and craft beer, to brewing an environmentally driven batch using energy-efficient methods for Earth Day.
What exactly are craft brewing and artisanal baking? Are they flavour-driven expressions, or a reimagination of the food system? Is localisation merely “ingredient traceability”, or a more creative practice of food ecology? We also discussed the evolution of craft beer, the collision of flavour and culture, and the real challenges in China’s grain supply chain.
Whether you are a beer enthusiast, a baking devotee, or an advocate of “flavour exploration”, we invite you to press play and think about the future of food with us through taste.
This Episode’s Guests
Zhang Kai
Brewer at Fenye Brewing and the Kumquat Project. Through local brewing projects, he aims to advocate for a more sustainable hedonism.
Xu Xin
Co-founder of me lab Mars Elephant Lab and Grain Whisperer; translator of the Chinese edition of The Details of Sourdough. Focused on the flavour logic from grain source to plate, integrating sustainability principles into everyday R&D and production.
This Episode’s Hosts
Wang Hao
Food Talk host
Xiaojing
Food Talk host. Cannot get through a day without bread, and loves a little tipple too.
Timeline
05:50 What Is Craft Brewing? A Craft or a Culture? What Sets It Apart from Ordinary Beer?
12:27 Why Are There More and More “Sweet Sippers” in Craft Beer Pubs?
16:51 The Upstream–Downstream Loop of Beer and Bread: Can Spent Grain from Brewing Really Be Made into Low-Sugar Biscuits?
22:30 How Do You Brew an “Earth Day Beer” from the Surplus Bread of Ten Beijing Bakeries?
30:00 Beer Has More Than One Flavour: Craft Beer Made through a “Zero-Waste Ingredient Loop” Tastes Entirely Its Own
31:22 China’s Craft Brewing and Baking Rely on Imported Raw Materials—What Makes Local Sourcing So Difficult?
37:33 Tomatoes, Cacao, Honey… Localising Craft Beer Flavours
44:31 You’ve Heard of Blended Tea—But Did You Know Wheat Needs “Blending” Too?
45:07 Freshly Milled Local Wholemeal Flour: For Aroma and for Consistency
48:26 Climate Change and Grain Shortages: The Cost Challenge Facing Craft Brewing
57:30 The Fermentation Journey of Wheat: On Taste, Land and Time
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Unless otherwise stated, all images were provided by this episode’s guests
Podcast music: Banong
Episode produced by: Xiaojing
Episode edited by: Yuyang
Contact email: [email protected]